August 25, 2008 at 5:06 pm 24 comments

So I have decided that “none” the non entity deserves some answers since Brian it was directed to you ! Seems they see you as a kindred spirit 🙂 LETS PLAY WHO IS THE NON ENTITY AND THE CLUES ARE-

1. Here is the first part of NON THE NON ENTITY’S MAIL

“Brian, Loraine conveniently neglected to tell you one thing and answer one of your questions with all her ALL CAPS chest pounding about “three weeks of negotiations.”

Look at the bottom left hand corner of page three of the document. That’s the footer for the Vorys law firm’s Cleveland office that appears on documents they create. The number is a unique identifier for the document in their database.

In short, the city of Lorain’s lawyers wrote it.”

My response YOU SEE NON ENTITY – I wouldn’t have known that- not having any legal training so thanks for pointing that out and even if I did “I” wouldn’t have realized that it WAS the Cleveland law offices of VORYS however how nice that YOU DO- familiar with them are you ?- it would seem so since you recognised the number!
So the city asked their attorneys to work on a document with the other people involved in the litigation …..sorry BUT apart from having to pay the bill because of the County’s posturings in the first place -why is that a problem? I would have expected the attorneys to be involved for the city since I believe the city made the overture.

Oh dear and more legal eagling from the Non Entity

The Commissioners, in either negligent or willful collusion with them, signed it. Do you really think they asked a lot of questions if the lazy county prosecutors didn’t write it? If so, I’ve got a tax abatement retroactive to 1950 I’d like to sell you.

And you and 300,000 other Lorain County residents are about to get screwed if they get away with it.

My response : HMMMMMM you and other Lorain County residents.I take it YOU aren’t a Lorain County resident because you would have said “we” are getting screwed….hmmm there is that English language again and OOOOOO dear “lazy county prosecutors” tch tch not very nice but then you haven’t got the intestinal fortitude to call them out under your own name? So I will just consider the source on that one ( hmmm thats right we are considering the source aren’t we)

Loraine cannot explain why retroactive abatements in the city of Lorain are okay but do not take place ANYWHERE ELSE IN OHIO. Could it be that everyone else gets that they are illegal because state law says that abatements are for new construction or improvements?

I believe you have said that a number times in all the newspaper accounts – nothing new there -my chum- except I never said they are OK just that they can apply for them .as for 1950 I think 1990 would be a better year

“Y’all need to start asking tough questions of your Council people. Are they and their lawyers really so smart? “

My response :Well I don’t know the City’s attorneys won the Supreme Court decision didn’t they ? As for Council people well at least 4 of them worked for the “county” and 3 for the auditor when all this was first going on…. you should ask that question of Mr. Stewart as to their intelligence .

I understand from Loraine’s prior writings that her daughter whose situation she is so obsessed with was one of the few who bought property after the b.s. ordinance passed. Why does Loraine never acknowledge that Auditor Stewart has tried over and over again to address that situation with offers to work this out through a settlement?

MY Response ERRRRRRR excuse me but AUDITOR STEWART TOTALLY IGNORED a registered letter sent October 19th 2007 and has ignored repeated phone calls since then until she received a letter yesterday and guess what it said :

“hostage to the other homeowners who did nothing to earn an abatement?” OOOPPS SO SORRY !!! THAT IS WHAT YOU SAID – FUNNY THAT BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT STEWART SAID TOO

Oh Dear I am beginning to see a pattern emerging here ?

I’ve never seen anyone so willing to defend a corrupt system and unable to recognize her own self interest. “The lawyers! It’s all them! They’re evil! Even with millions and millions of dollars at stake, Mark Stewart should have no legal representation and should not spend anything on independent lawyers who are beholden to the city of Lorain political machine! He’s a bad man! City officials are angels! Their lawyers (who may have written the goofy legislation that has caused so much trouble!) are geniuses! Mark Provenza is a genius! Not”

Oh dear “knickers in a not ” time well not all lawyers are evil just the ones that use the media to fight their case and the blogs and my taxes to send petulant little letters… – sorry if you took offence I realize that you would want to defend your peers ….Of course some are just down right not worth the money we of Lorain County are paying them _ in my humble opinion.. …they are “losers”
I wonder if Lorain will allow this to be posted in its entirety.

YUP would you like your ISP address listed too!

Now readers lets play the guessing game – who do you think is ? Well one thing is for sure he hasn’t the balls to sign his name

Entry filed under: city of lorain, CRA, Uncategorized.

BARNICLE ON HER BUTT by If it’s Wednesday – This must be London!

24 Comments Add your own

  • 1. denise caruloff  |  August 25, 2008 at 11:51 pm

    oh my, I normally do not read such long posts…i think I will pour my self a glass of wine and decided if I want to re-read. hmmmmmmm.

  • 2. Brian Hazelett  |  August 26, 2008 at 2:40 am

    I read through your post and it is a lot to digest. I would have to agree that you are most likely correct that the reply that was posted was from someone that is positioned with Mark Stewarts office. I would also agree that it would appear that they “played off of” my comment that I posted, but the concerns that I raised are from before any7 of the lawsuits were filed.

    Many people have commented that I have an ability to interpret the building codes. I have also been able to muddle through the Ohio Revised codes, and that is how I was able to find and build up a case that ended up being a helpful in shutting down the Compass House from housing sexual offenders.

    The laws are not that difficult to understand if one can understand the INTENT of why it was written. Laws, along with ordinances, are not just written to be written. All those WHEREAS’s that appear before an ordinance are to show the intent for which the law is written.

    Building codes are not written just to give people a hard time. The INTENT of the codes are usually to make the construction either safe or for the benefit of health. A perfect example is that there is a building code that says that a bedroom window has to have a minimum operable opening. The reason for this code is if there is a fire that a fireman with an oxygen tank can get into and out of a window to save a life. If a building code doesn’t pertain to a structural issue, most of our building codes were written by either the Fire Marshall or the Health Department. The INTENT is health and Safety.

    The CRA is an Ordinance that takes advantage of Ohio Law. The INTENT of the Ohio Law in my opinion was to spur new investment, which leads to new tax revenue. As I see it, the CRA is supposed to offset the risk of someone investing in a questionable area, or one that poses a higher risk, than other areas where the risk is less. Offering abatement, in my humble opinion, is nothing more than a way to PAY SOMEONE to invest in an area. Since our local government can’t fork out cash to do it, they just “forgive” future monies that they would collect.

    Like I stated earlier, I believe the INTENT of the CRA is to spur new investment. If residents who are already here and paying taxes are offered abatements, it contradicts the INTENT of the law as it was written by the State of Ohio. I believe our city tried to get around a state law by trying to create a loophole where it never existed before. The problem never existed before the cities attorneys who work with community development wrote the language that council voted on in I believe 2006.

    To explain how I feel a little more, the State of Ohio creates laws, and since we are a statuary city, we have to follow and enforce the same laws. We are allowed to modify some of these laws, but we cannot make laws go away just because the city of Lorain doesn’t like them.

    What Lorain effectively did, again in my opinion, was take a state law and changed the intent. What is the INTENT of creating retroactive abatements? If it was written into the “WHEREAS’s” how would that language have read?

    Who’s at fault that this bungled law was written? County didn’t write it, nor did the State of Ohio. Did our cities legal department write it? Doubt it, as they mostly ensure that the laws are in the proper form to be submitted.

    I suspect that the ordinance that was presented to council was written by the same attorney’s that are now possibly getting hundreds of thousands defending the ordinance that they reviewed and possibly helped write. As much as I hate to see our city waste money on attorney’s, it is very unsettling to think that possibly the attorney’s that the city is not paying to defend the ordinance are the ones that helped write it.

    I’ll comment some more if I get a chance tomorrow.

  • 3. Brian Hazelett  |  August 26, 2008 at 2:46 am


    typo in one of the latter sentences.

    it is unsettling to think that possibly the attorney’s that the city is NOW paying to defend the ordinance are the ones that helped write it.

    Who knows, maybe the city doesn’t have the money to pay them?

    Does the city need a purchase order to spend over $25,000.00 and while the county has spent way more than what it authorized, if the city never authorized the expenditure for the attorney’s, is there a LOOP HOLE so we don’t have to pay them?

  • 4. Brian Hazelett  |  August 26, 2008 at 6:32 am

    Well, it is now tomorrow on my clock, I just noticed when I wrote that last post that your clocks are set for a different time zone for your blog.

    I can understand Loraine how you may interpret that the Auditor has played some folks. I can see how the Auditor’s attorney has “played their game, and I have observed how the city and their attorney’s have played their game. The problem is that you, I, and everyone else get to pay for them to play their game, but both of them have been playing, and all of us get to get stuck with paying.

    I understand that the memorandum of understanding you claim is the cities attempt to “take some fuel out of the fire”, but what prevented them from making the gesture a year ago? In their “offer” to negotiate, they are willing to give back 25% of the retroactive abatements which is like me taking a dollar from you and saying if I give you back a quarter back we are all squared up.

    In my opinion, someone from within the city tried to create revenue by robbing Peter, yet again, to pay Paul, which it has been doing for years, except this time Peter didn’t have any money so they decided that they were going to take it from someone else’s pockets when they weren’t looking.

    Do you have any idea what the cities “debt” looks like? Did you know that in 1999 our city owed three hundred and some dollars for every man, woman and child that live in our city? Take a guess what it is today? We are well over a hundred million in debt and every man woman and child in our city owes over a thousand dollars now, wouldn’t it be nice if we had something to show for all this freaking money we owe? If I run out and maxed out all of my credit cards, I would think that I would have got some good shit to show for it instead of a piece of shit.

    About 54% of our cities revenue comes from income taxes. Everything else comes from some other entity, and look what has happened with Federal and State dollars over the past few years. What does ONE HUNDRED AND SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS look like to the city of Lorain? If half of our budget comes from income taxes and we assume half the debt is going to get paid from those income taxes, remember one thing. Lorain collects 2% of most wage earners in our city, which is much higher than just about every other city that is around us.

    Here is that stupid math again that I said in the forth grade I was never going to use. To get the 50 million dollars, which is about half of the 107 million dollars that we owe, how many MORE DOLLARS in wages does our city need to create so that the city can collect 2% of that amount to pay off the debt? I won’t give you the answer just this minute, but it is ONE HELL OF A BIG NUMBER!

    Does our city have the money to defend the tax breaks for about three hundred and fifteen that never should have gotten it in my opinion? A quarter million dollars just “pissed away” in a battle that our city never should have gotten us into. This is the way our city operates. We gave them money to build a jail, the money was pissed away and three or four years later we have a twelve day holding facility that I do not believe we have the money to operate much longer. We trusted our city leaders to be good stewards of our tax dollars and we now have over a million dollar stadium that they claim made 12 dollars or so last year as costs are being hidden and bill after bill keeps strolling in. We only have about another half million or so until it gets done, but guess what, it sure is great for all of Lorain’s kids to look at something that most of them will never use.

    Remember “project dry basement” and its super sized model to go with it? Our city couldn’t even put in a freaking plastic back flow valve in Scott and Michelle’s front yard and our city wants to tunnel under the Black River and build a new wastewater treatment plant?

    I am going to come out and tell you that my comments have been mine and only mine. I keep asking the same questions over and over and I never get the answers. I would quit asking the question if someone would actually answer them truthfully and honestly as the answers that I have gotten have been not to answer them at all.

    I am sorry Loraine if you feel that the County Auditor tried to propagate on your blog using one of my comments, but I feel the memorandum of understanding is nothing more than propaganda also from the city. I feel both sides are using you in my humble opinion. It appears to me that you have supported one side, and I believe both sides are wrong and want them both to end TODAY, not one year from now. I think the ball is in the cities court, but I believe that they won’t play unless they get to make up their own rules.

    It is now after 2:00 in the morning and please excuse any typos or mistakes that I may have made. I am going to bed now.

  • 5. Loraine Ritchey  |  August 26, 2008 at 11:20 am

    Nobody uses me Brian –
    1. I started writing about this because of a comment you made on Wom which at the time I believed to be incorrect
    2. I,. as is my want, went to the source- in this case Community Development
    3. The council people involved Holcomb and Snodgrass also came on Wom with their take and letters and documentation
    4. I interviewed Snodgrass
    5. I interviewed the city
    6. I was accused of not being factual by Holcomb.
    7. You stated they had changed the percentage and time in CRA ordinance for 3 and 4
    8. You got the that ordinance and emailed me the copy
    9. I read the paragraph and called you and told you there was more to the sentence and the rest is history hundreds of words and comments later
    10 that takes us to 2007
    May 2007 my daughter purchases a new build ( after being transferred back from Maumee so the Barnical came first
    11. Being involved in media for many years I watched the spin in the papers from Stewart and his attorney – I don’t like it when the media is duped into “fooling the public”
    12- Accusations were made of criminal conduct by Chandra , Holcomb and Snodgrass ( veiled) in a PD article. against Dan Given
    13. I followed up on that as I could see that there were other areas in that piece that were incorrect and also ommitted. I sent the errors to the PD
    14. I then asked the questions that had been raised and got the answers which were posted here with the documentation. which quite frankly the main stream media should have done
    15. Chandra is very good at the media game and as I pointed out the headlines don’t always match the real story .
    He is excellent at the sound bites and posturing. makes excellent coverage if you are depending upon sales for your existence.
    16. So watching this manupulation irked especially when people are being manipulated.
    16. The Supreme Court case was basically to see if Stewart had the right of denial as I see it and yet the Chandra Chant in the documentation went off on the same line as the media manipulatins ( and yes I read them)
    17. Stewart and Chandra are pushing very hard to have Betleski rule on the program- I think that is a conflict with all the “in house and knee knocking” and have said so

    No I am not being used – it is the principle of the thing .I don’t like being manipulated, I don’t like being caught between a cat fight of professionals that should be doing their jobs in the first place..and what is wrong with talking ???.

    I don’t know Mr. Stewart ( don’t much like him from what I have seen of his letters) , I have had my share of fights with the city especially with Sandy , I have formed opinions because of this about council people that I didn’t have before. And it would be a cold day in hell before anyone of them would get my vote who have postured and cast aspertions and also cost the city who they are supposed to represent- (but that is just me personally) and I can’t vote for them anyway ….

    My daughter , well I would fight for her BUT she is fully capable of doing her own fighting -trust me on that one.

    I don’t care if the city has a CRA program or not
    I am not running for office, it doesn’t effect me – I won’t be taking advantage of it in my area as quite frankly why would I put any more money into a property with two foreclosures and empty housing
    on my block alone.

    The debate as to the way you read the ordinances well Brian I did ask those questions and you can find the answers here on Barnicle on her Butts Blog… I gotta tell you that Chandra is GOOD.. in case you all haven’t noticed ‘I AM LOVIN’ IT 🙂

    Now I gotta tell you Brian I don’t suppose my readers will read all of your comments and I don’t suppose they will read all of mine so it is a bit of a waste of our time as I told you off the blog my fingers are getting tired and I am tired of chewing my cud twice and thrice…..come over I will put the kettle on and we can – talk-
    infact if Chandra and Stewart want to join us that would be fine too!
    Barnicle on her butt has to deal with health issues today but I will be around call…

  • 6. Paula Tobias  |  August 26, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    Okay you two…….

    in 3 bullet points or less (for those who skim)

    Make your point(s)

    BTW – The unofficial Poll I’ve taken shows it’s believed the unknown poster is an attorney, with much to lose if this doesn’t play out.

  • 7. Loraine Ritchey  |  August 26, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    BTW – The unofficial Poll I’ve taken shows it’s believed the unknown poster is an attorney, with much to lose if this doesn’t play out.

    You may think that I couldn’t possbily comment Cha Chinnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggg 🙂

  • 8. Kelly Boyer Sagert  |  August 26, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    The question that I keep having is this: what checks and balances does our city government now have to prevent something like this from happening again?

  • 9. Loraine Ritchey  |  August 26, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    I have NO IDEA – the system failed and continues to fail I guess we would have to ask an attorney 😦

  • 10. muley  |  August 26, 2008 at 2:01 pm

    ………….it’s still a great day in Lorain.

  • 11. Loraine Ritchey  |  August 26, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    Muley , for those that live here 😦 as opposed to those that just get their funding from Lorain and Lorain County …the dance of the da y CHA ChA Chandra 🙂

  • 12. Mark  |  August 26, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    Vedddy Interesting.

  • 13. Brian  |  August 26, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    Possibly we could also get the folks from Community Development to sit down with us also? Maybe they will explain to me what REALLY HAPPENED with Olgesby Norton as we wait for the other “Guests” to arrive.

  • 14. Loraine Ritchey  |  August 26, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    BELGIUM happened 🙂

  • […] When in Rome- although I have lived here for the majority of my life now – family and friends will tell me when we meet up over drinks at various pubs well at least you haven’t lost your British accent or sense of humor […]

  • 16. Brian  |  August 26, 2008 at 4:25 pm

    I already heard “that story”.

  • 17. Loraine Ritchey  |  August 26, 2008 at 5:12 pm


  • 18. HENERY’S -THE HOME AWAY FROM HOME « That Woman’s Weblog  |  August 27, 2008 at 12:03 pm


  • 19. Loraine Ritchey  |  August 28, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    HE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ BACK!!!!
    check it out and check out his wording in the mj article
    CLUEDO reigns .how professional is this NONE @ NONE .com can be found here

  • 20. Brian Hazelett  |  September 14, 2008 at 6:36 pm

    I saw from September 2nd’s council minutes that the city is going to roll 420 thousand dollars in legal fees “so far” into a twenty year bond.

    Between what the county and the city has spent so far, that’s a whole lotta advice, and nothing to show for it.

  • […] The Beginning of the “play” can be found here CRA or Confusion Runs Amuck So I was away for a month and a bit – what has happened to our intrepid cast of Lorain”s Saga of CRA (P)olitical Posers and Posteriors […]

  • […] that IS a nice gesture BUT ( there it is that BUT (t) again ) – the questions raised would be […]

  • 23. A Propensity for Dens-(c)ity « That Woman’s Weblog  |  June 16, 2009 at 10:52 pm

    […] such a load of tripe under “The All Mouth No Trousers “ section along with No One ( Barnicle on her Butt) or the Angry in Amherst – or even the Iron-E that get their own “special place ” […]

  • 24. Who am I today? « That Woman’s Weblog  |  May 19, 2010 at 10:53 am

    […] my fragmented world. I stand behind everything I write, and have on occasion dealt with the “idiot fringe“ with no problems but that was the “old Loraine”- this “pieces parts […]

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August 2008

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